Chapter 8: Ignore, Enchant, Conform & Buy Influence (Laws 36–40)

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Welcome to the Deep Dive.

Today, well, you've pointed us towards a really interesting one, Robert Green's The 48 Laws of Power.

It's definitely a book that sparks debate.

It really does.

Whether you see it as like a practical manual or just a fascinating historical commentary, it makes you think.

Absolutely.

And our mission for this session, based on your request, is to zero in on five specific laws from the book.

Right.

We're going to break each one down.

The core idea, Green's historical examples,

the do's and don'ts he lays out, and some practical takeaways.

Think of it as, well, a focused tour through these particular power strategies.

Okay, sounds good.

Let's dive right in then.

Law 36.

Disdain things you cannot have.

Ignoring them is the best revenge.

What's the basic idea here?

So the main thought is when you react to small problems or things you can't get anyway, you actually give them power.

You make them seem bigger.

By acknowledging them.

Exactly.

So this law suggests that showing disdain, just ignoring them, that can be a really powerful way to stay in control and seem above it all.

Green uses Pancho Villa and that whole American punitive expedition as an example.

Tell us about that one again.

Okay, so early 20th century.

Pancho Villa,

initially kind of seen as a folk hero by some in the US.

Yeah.

But then he starts doing more controversial things, like that raid on Columbus, New Mexico in 1916.

Which wasn't a huge invasion, right?

More like a border incident.

Pretty much.

Right.

But President Wilson, Woodrow Wilson, he responded with, well, massive force.

There was public pressure and he wanted to show American strength.

So he launches this big military expedition into Mexico to capture Villa.

And it was a serious operation.

Lots of troops, new technology.

Oh yeah.

Started with about 10 ,000 soldiers.

Then it ballooned to something like 123 ,000.

They have planes, radios, the works, and a huge reward for Villa.

$50 ,000.

Which was a fortune back there.

Absolutely.

But here's the twist.

This massive show of force, it kind of suddenly rallied around him against the American army.

So they start helping him.

Totally.

Giving false leads, hiding him.

Villa apparently just watched the Americans stumbling around the mountains.

The whole thing turned into this embarrassing failure for the US.

So the attempt to crush him actually made him look stronger.

In a way, yeah.

It made the US look kind of incompetent and Villa looked resourceful, you know, dodging this huge army.

Eventually, Wilson had to pull the troops out, completely humiliated.

And Green's take is that Wilson overreacted to a relatively minor thing.

Exactly.

By giving it so much tension, so much force, he amplified Villa's status and ended up looking weak himself.

He didn't disdain the problem.

He magnified it.

Okay.

The other story for Law 36 is very different.

Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon.

More personal.

Yeah.

Classic power play through ignoring someone.

Henry needed a male heir desperately.

He convinced himself his marriage to Catherine, his brother's widow,

was like cursed or invalid.

Plus he was into Anne Boleyn.

Right.

That was definitely a factor.

But the pope wouldn't grant an annulment, mostly because of political pressure from Catherine's powerful nephew, Emperor Charles V.

So Henry was stuck, but he found another way.

He did.

He basically just started ignoring Catherine,

stopped sleeping with her, refused to call her queen, insisted she was just the dowager princess.

Then in 1531, he kicked her out of court.

Just totally isolated her.

Completely.

Treated like she didn't exist, didn't matter, ignored the pope's threats, broke away from the Catholic Church entirely, set up the Church of England.

So he could grant his own annulment.

Pretty much.

Yeah.

And Mary Anne.

Catherine died a few years later, still isolated.

Green argues that Henry's total disdain, his refusal to acknowledge her or the pope's authority over him in this matter, was key.

By ignoring them, he stripped them of their power.

In his world, at least.

Exactly.

Their anger, their decrees.

They meant nothing.

Because he just acted like they didn't.

He canceled them out.

Okay.

So based on Villa and Henry VIII, what are the key do's and don'ts for Law 36?

Right.

So the do's are things like,

ignore the small stuff, the petty annoyances.

Show contempt for things you can't have anyway.

Use disdain strategically.

And the don'ts.

Don't give minor issues credibility by reacting.

Don't strengthen enemies by paying them attention.

Even negative attention.

Don't make small mistakes worse by trying too hard to fix them publicly.

And, crucially, don't let your pride dictate your reaction.

Makes sense.

What are the practical takeaways then?

First, ask yourself, is this problem really worth my energy?

Sometimes saying nothing is the strongest move.

Second, if you want something you can't have, acting indifferent can actually be more powerful than showing you're upset.

Protects your own feelings, too, maybe?

Yeah.

And projects strength.

Third, if someone inferior attacks you, ignoring them can sometimes convey more power than fighting back.

And, finally, if you mess up slightly, don't make a huge deal of correcting it.

Treat it lightly.

Okay.

Let's shift gears.

Law 37.

Create compelling spectacles.

This sounds much more outward -facing.

Definitely.

It's all about presentation, visuals, symbols.

The idea is that images and symbols bypass our rational minds and hit us emotionally.

Creating stronger connections than just words.

Exactly.

Spectacle creates associations, unifies people, grabs attention in a way logic often can't.

It's about the experience.

Green uses a weird one to start this law, the Moon Doctor of Berlin.

Yeah, kind of bizarre.

Back in the 1780s in Berlin,

this Dr.

Weislitter got famous for his unique healing practice in an old beer hall.

People line up for ages.

What was his method?

Something to do with the moon, obviously.

Right.

He claimed he could heal people by exposing them to moonlight.

The whole setup was pure theater.

Crowded waiting room, moonlight screaming through specific windows upstairs.

Setting the stage.

Totally.

You'd hear noises, shouts from the treatment room.

Then the patient goes up, uncovers a sore spot, the doctor lifts him to the moonlight, mumbles something, gazes at the moon,

and collects his fee.

Sounds theatrical.

Very.

And Green points out his wife ran a similar setup in a south -facing room where the moon wouldn't even be visible.

Ah, so it wasn't really about the moonlight itself.

Probably not.

Green's point is that Weislitter understood spectacle.

The image, the symbol of the moon, the mystery.

That was enough to make people believe they were being healed.

It tapped into something emotional, not rational.

Okay, the second example is Diane de Poitiers and Henri II of France.

More historical court intrigue.

Right.

Diane was only the second's mistress, and she was quite a bit older than him.

But she held huge influence over him his whole life.

And a big part of that was her brilliant use of symbols.

Like their initials.

Exactly.

Early on, she created this logo, basically their initials, H and D, intertwined, and she put it everywhere.

On his clothes, on buildings, in the palace, branding their connection.

And she also linked herself to mythology, right?

Yeah, she identified with Diana, the Roman goddess.

Same name, obviously.

But Diana was goddess of the hunt.

Henri loved hunting and also symbolized chastity, purity.

Which is ironic for a mistress.

Very.

But it was a clever move.

It gave her this air of respectability, set her apart, and she leaned into it heavily.

Her castle, Annette, she rebuilt it like a temple to Diana.

Her colors, black and white, were everywhere.

Symbols of Diana crescent moons, stags, hounds all over the place, mixed with those intertwined initials.

There were even sculptures of her as Diana.

And Henri bought into all this.

Completely.

He embraced the whole persona.

Diane became almost like a goddess figure to him, securing his devotion.

Green sees it as a masterclass in using imagery to elevate oneself and cement power.

Wow.

Okay, so the do's and don'ts for Law 37, creating spectacles.

The don'ts.

Definitely use striking visuals.

Employ symbols that resonate.

Stage grant, emotional events.

Link yourself to powerful images from the past.

Create a unique trademark.

And the don'ts.

Don't rely only on words or logic.

Don't ignore the visual side of things.

Don't assume people will just get it without compelling imagery to draw them in emotionally.

Ractical advice from this one.

Think visually.

How can you enhance your message, whatever it is, with visuals or symbols?

What images resonate with your audience?

And remember, sometimes emotion and spectacle persuade more effectively than pure reason.

Moving on to Law 38.

Think as you like, but behave like others.

This feels like navigating office politics almost.

Or just, you know, society in general.

It's about the tension between being yourself and fitting in.

The law basically says flaunting weird ideas or unconventional behavior openly.

That often leads to trouble.

Isolation.

So blend in on the surface.

Pretty much.

Keep your truly original thoughts for people you trust who get you.

Outwardly, conform enough not to attract negative attention.

Green uses the example of Pausanias, the Spartan leader who got a bit too into Persian culture.

Yeah, Pausanias.

He's a big hero initially, beat the Persians.

But then he spent time around them and really started to admire their lifestyle, started dressing like them, living luxuriously.

Which wouldn't go down well in Sparta.

Not at all.

Spartans valued simplicity, discipline.

He started openly dissing the Greek way of life, insulting his own soldiers.

People got suspicious.

Thought he was maybe plotting with the Persians.

Exactly.

Rumors started flying.

He got recalled to Sparta, but he kept up the Persian act.

Then he went off on his own, trying to carve out a kingdom with Persian help.

So he was openly defying Spartan norms.

Massively.

Yeah.

Eventually they found proof he was communicating treasonously with Zerxes, the Persian king.

He fled to a temple, but they trapped him inside and, well, he starved to death.

Grim.

And Green's point is, it wasn't just admiring another culture, it was the flaunting it.

The contempt for his own side that did him in.

Right.

The open deviation bred suspicion and led straight to his downfall.

The second story is Tommaso Campanella, the philosopher monk who pretended to be mad.

Yeah, Campanella.

Late 16th, early 17th century, he had these materialist ideas that clashed hard with the Catholic church, got thrown in prison by the Inquisition for heresy.

And he didn't stop there, did he?

Nope.

Kept writing, kept promoting his ideas, even from prison, got re -imprisoned, tortured really brutally.

Facing execution, he made a strategic move.

Feigning madness.

Exactly.

He convinced them his heresy wasn't willful, just the ravings of a lunatic.

It worked sentence commuted to life

But he kept working subtly, even then.

Oh yeah.

He became a master of outward conformity, wrote a book, The Hispanic Monarchy, that seemed pro -Spanish, trying to get released.

Then wrote another, Atheism Conquered, supposedly defending Catholicism.

Right.

But it cleverly laid out all the arguments for atheism really clearly within the supposed refutations.

So he was still subtly spreading the ideas he believed in.

Wow.

So Campanella learned that open defiance was dangerous.

But blending in allowed him to survive and still have influence?

That's Green's interpretation.

A perfect example of thinking as you like, but behaving like others when necessary.

Okay, do's and don'ts for Law 38.

Don'ts.

Blend in with group customs.

Cultivate the common touch.

Share unconventional ideas only with trusted friends.

Wear the right social mask for the situation.

And don'ts.

Don't flaunt your differences.

Don't show contempt for group norms.

Don't directly contradict widely held beliefs in public.

Don't make a big show of being counter -cultural.

Practical takeaways here seem pretty clear.

Yeah.

Read the room, basically.

Adapt your outward behavior.

Understand that direct challenges to core beliefs often backfire.

Sometimes seeming conventional is the smartest way to protect your ability to think unconventionally.

Right.

On to Law 39.

Stir up waters to catch fish.

This sounds a bit manipulative, provoking people.

It definitely can be seen that way.

The core idea is you stay calm and objective, but you find ways to make your enemies angry and irrational.

Why?

What's the advantage?

Because angry people lose control.

They act rationally, make mistakes, their emotions cloud their judgment, and that gives you an edge.

Green starts with Napoleon losing his cool over Talleyrand and Fouche.

Yeah, 1809.

Napoleon comes back to Paris.

Here's these rumors his ministers Talleyrand and quietly.

You blew up.

Big time.

Called them all in and just unleashed this furious rambling tirade.

Very public, very emotional.

And Green sees that as a mistake, not a show of strength.

Definitely a mistake.

Green argues that kind of outburst shows weakness, insecurity, loss of control.

It doesn't usually inspire loyalty or fear, more like resentment.

Makes you look unstable.

So what should Napoleon have done instead?

Well, maybe investigate quietly first, or try to win them back subtly.

Or, if he had proof, remove them calmly and decisively.

Show power through control, not rage.

A public tantrum just undermined his image.

Okay, the counter example is Hale Selassie dealing with Ras Guza in Ethiopia.

Much more calculated.

Absolutely.

A masterclass in stirring the waters strategically.

Selassie wanted to consolidate power, become emperor.

Ras Guza, who was married to the empress, was a major obstacle.

So what did Selassie do?

He knew Guza was proud and probably resentful.

First, he appointed Guza governor of a remote, unimportant province.

A subtle slight.

Then he deliberately ignored a rebellious local tribe for a while.

Setting a trap.

Seems like it.

Then Selassie ordered Guza to go fight that same tribe.

Knowing this would wound Guza's pride, why should he clean up a mess Selassie ignored?

And Guza reacted predictably.

Exactly.

As Selassie probably hoped.

Guza got furious, started spreading anti -Selassie propaganda, claiming Selassie was allied with Catholics and Italians, trying to undermine the Ethiopian church.

He raised an army and marched on the capital.

Playing right into Selassie's hands.

Totally.

Because Selassie was ready.

He secured the church's backing,

bribed Guza's allies.

When Guza marched, Selassie's planes dropped leaflets, discrediting him.

Guza's army just melted away and he was killed.

And Selassie became emperor soon after.

Yup.

Provoked the rebellion on his own terms when he was ready to crush it.

Stirred the waters, then caught the fish.

Okay.

The do's and don'ts for stirring water.

Do's.

Stay calm yourself.

Always.

Find your enemy's weak spot vanity.

Pride are common ones.

And poke it.

Knock them off balance.

Force them to react emotionally.

Play on those uncontrollable feelings.

And don'ts.

Don't lose your temper.

That's weakness.

Don't take things personally in these power games.

Don't think angry outbursts automatically mean power.

And be careful.

Provocation can bag fire if you're not smart about it.

Practical advice for listeners.

Remember that other people's anger often isn't just about you.

It's their stuff.

See outbursts as potential signs of weakness or openings.

Think about how controlled, subtle provocation might work.

And sometimes, the best response to anger is no response at all.

That can be incredibly effective.

Okay, final law for this deep dive.

Law 40.

Despise the free lunch.

This

offered for free almost always come with strings attached.

Obligations.

Dependencies.

They undermine your independence.

Paying your own way signals power.

Self -reliance.

But Green also mentions strategic generosity.

That's the flip stand.

While you should be wary of free stuff coming to you, using calculated generosity yourself could be a powerful tool for influence.

Green uses the Spanish chasing El Dorado as a negative example here.

The ultimate free lunch fantasy.

Totally.

After they found gold in Peru, the Spanish got obsessed with this myth of El Dorado.

A city made of gold, just waiting to be taken.

This promise of easy, massive wealth drove countless expeditions.

Like Gonzalo Pizarro's disastrous trip into the Amazon.

Exactly.

Huge expedition.

Terrible suffering.

Torture.

Utter failure.

All chasing this dream of free gold.

Green argues this obsession with the free lunch drained Spain's resources, human and financial.

Distracted them from building real, sustainable power.

Pretty much.

It highlights the danger of being seduced by the idea of effortless gain, ignoring the real work of building power through self -control, strategy, and managing relationships.

The second story is about Blenheim Palace, a gift that caused a lot of trouble.

Yeah, classic beware of gifts scenario.

Queen Anne gave the Duke of Marlborough land money to build this huge palace, Blenheim, to honor his military victories.

A massive gift from the state.

Sounds great, but.

But the Duke's wife, the Duchess, was apparently incredibly difficult.

Always complaining about money, interfering with the architect, being really miserly, even though it wasn't mostly her money.

And this caused problems.

Big time.

Her behavior soured the relationship with the Queen, leading to her losing favor and influence.

The palace construction was a nightmare of disputes and delays.

The Duke died before it was finished.

So the free palace came with a lot of

Exactly.

Green suggests the Duchess wasn't really saving money.

She was playing power games, being controlling.

Her focus on the cost, even of a gift, ruined relationships and caused immense grief.

It wasn't about the money.

It was about her need for control, which backfired.

But then there's Pietro Aretino, who used spending strategically.

Right.

The positive spin on money and influence.

Aretino is a 16th century writer, sharp, satirical.

He moved to Venice and deliberately spent lavishly.

Banquets, tips, entertainment.

Not exactly a free lunch for him.

No, it cost him.

But it created the image of wealth and power.

This attracted influential people, artists, potential patrons.

His spending was an investment.

And it paid off.

Hugely.

His reputation for generosity and influence brought him actual gifts and patronage from Dukes, Popes, the powerful.

He understood money needed to flow to create power.

His gifts subtly put the powerful in his debt rather than the other way around.

So the do's and don'ts for Law 40, despising the free lunch.

Those be ready to pay full price for independence.

Use generosity strategically to build influence.

See money as a tool that needs to circulate.

Then don'ts.

Don't trust free offers.

Blindly look for the strings.

Don't be a miser.

It closes doors.

But also don't just give stuff away randomly without a purpose.

Practical takeaways.

Be skeptical of deals that seem too to be true.

Think about the psychology of how can you use generosity strategically?

And remember, sometimes investing money, spending it wisely, creates more power than just holding onto it.

So yeah, that wraps up our look at these five specific laws from the 48 laws of power.

We covered Law 36 on disdain, Law 37 on spectacle, Law 38 about fitting in, Law 39 on story waters, and Law 40 on the free lunch.

We definitely went through the core ideas.

Green stories, the do's and don'ts, and the takeaways for each one.

It's a lot to think about.

Absolutely.

And it's crucial, like we said at the start, to see these as tools for understanding power dynamics.

Maybe recognizing them in the world.

Applying them ethically.

That's a whole other conversation.

Right.

So maybe the provocative thought for listeners is, which of these patterns do you see playing out around you?

In the news, at work, maybe even in personal life?

Just noticing them can change how you see things.

Does understanding these principles shift your perspective on ambition, on interactions, maybe encourages you to look into the other 43 laws?

Well, we have definitely covered these five laws thoroughly, hitting all the points requested in our deep dive today.

Thanks for joining us as we unpack these complex and sometimes controversial ideas.